Monday, June 29, 2009

Why I hate Christianity

I don’t hate Christians; I object to those that blindly follow an ideology and attempt to impose that ideology on others. Ultimately, I feel sorry for them for being duped into believing what is not only a lie, but a poorly constructed one at that. I continuously hope that they can find the strength within themselves to reflect and explore the validity of what they have been told. But I find their persistent ignorance, willingness to be used and the underlying fear that permeates their existence, leading to a narrow, fanatic and often violent dogmatism, appalling.

Christianity is a multi-billion dollar tax-exempt institution that works like a pyramid scheme. Members are encouraged to donate 10% of their income while volunteering countless hours of their time and actively recruit other members. It has created a dogma convincing enough that it can unflinchingly demand its followers to believe and obey everything they are told no matter how unethical, ludicrous or masochistic it is and they will unquestioningly do it. Christianity’s influence in American culture and politics is obvious, profound and entrenched.

Perhaps there is nothing I value more than having the ability to educate myself and make my own decisions regarding my preferences and opinions. I do not have a personality suited for blindly going along with the crowd or agreeing with the masses simply because there are more of them than me. While I realize that I am biased against organizations in general, I especially don’t like when those organizations impose their ideologies on non-members. Groups tend to have the perspective that freedom is found in being able to be free from having to do things such as explore, reflect, trust one’s self and form unique ideas; whereas for individuals, freedom is found in being able to do these things. Many Christians will deny that individual freedom even exists (see Calvinism).

I also do not value knowledge based on tradition. Aristotle’s wrong but influential beliefs regarding physics and medicine prevented those fields from evolving for centuries. Today, religious aversion to anything contrary to its narrow sense of morality stymies the progression of humankind. Interestingly, the figures most influential in how we now conceive God were also greatly influenced by Aristotle. Christians will declare that they “know” Christianity is true because they’ve been a Christian for X number of years. If having believed something for a long time is all that’s required to make something true, that should lighten the workload of Christians trying to convert people that can trace their beliefs back not only years but generations.

Although Christianity comes in many forms and with many interpretations, all Christians I am aware of claim that a fundamental source of knowledge is the Holy Bible. They do not seem to realize that most of the traits which they identify with God have their origins not in the bible, but in St. Augustine, a theologian and philosopher born in 354 AD. He developed metaphysical theories on the nature of a supreme being using philosophical logic and not the scriptures. Almost a century later, Maimonides and then St. Thomas of Aquinas would help to solidify how most now envision the Jewish and Christian God. Christians will claim these are the same god, but it does not take a bible scholar to realize that while both are monotheistic religions, the figurehead of each is portrayed very differently. Metaphysically speaking, every god ever conceived in any religion has an equal chance of existing.

According to the Old Testament (OT), God physically looks like us. He is often found wandering around asking questions and devising tests. Obsessively jealous and controlling, he has an extremely unstable personality; fond of genocide, revenge, tricking his subjects, changing his mind, collecting spoils, manipulating nature, implementing nitpicky rituals and rules regarding everything and, foremost of all, the spilling of blood. Christians ignore almost all of the over 600 OT commands and rituals, including what’s become known as the Fourth Commandment to honor Saturday by not doing anything, which is among the most stressed laws in the OT. Incidentally, the Christian tradition of going to church on Sunday is not mentioned anywhere in the bible at all. These OT laws are not flippant but specific and important, with impressive punishments for ignoring them. Then again, God himself ordered Moses to break the Second Commandment.

Jesus didn’t seem to think obeying the Old Testament laws were very important, and Paul, the main author of the New Testament (NT), blatantly allowed for them to be ignored. This conveniently enabled them to come up with their own set of rules and rituals, most of which stress the importance of being abstemious, which is not surprising considering how much the NT praises suffering.

Christians will dismiss the OT god in favor of the NT one. This god, instead of punishing us when we’re alive, has devised a way to eternally and senselessly torture those who don’t so much as believe in his existence. Instead of the OT promises of wealth and prosperity on earth for the obedient, the NT offers Christians a life of suffering but infinite reward after they’ve died. Whereas sex was a reward in the OT, now it is a sin unless done under very specific conditions. Having lost his taste for blood but not pain, the NT god continues to condone slavery (read the book of Philemon, a letter written by Paul to accompany an escaped slave who he has convinced to return to his master) and treats women very differently than men. In fact, the salvation of women is found through childbirth. They are considered irrational beings incapable of understanding God, so must keep covered, segregated and silent in church. Obviously, Christians generally ignore most of the NT commands as well.

I could never trust a supposedly all-knowing being that is so overwhelmingly inconsistent. It is especially odd that the bible itself seems to indicate that God is unchanging. If he can change his mind, it is impossible to use century old documents to find out what he currently wants from us. In the bible, God does consistently hate being ignored. Why, then, does he choose to be invisible and inert? While it may be true that absolute power corrupts absolutely, few other gods behave as such insecure megalomaniacs as the Christian God. Like the cruelest dictator, he demands to be obeyed and worshipped constantly with extremely excessive punishments for refusing to do so. What does he need us to acknowledge his existence or importance for? Wouldn’t it have been easier to simply invent himself a therapist?

Christians will excuse the errors in the bible by pointing out that it was written by humans. Why didn’t God simply write it himself then? He supposedly wrote the first version of the laws he told Moses on Sinai on the front and back of two stone tablets (which Moses promptly, dramatically and conveniently smashed to pieces), so he is not incapable. What does he have to gain by having his minions write flawed and contrasting versions of his rules for him? According to tradition, Moses wrote the first five books of the OT, which would mean he couldn’t even be consistent as to where his own brother died and was buried.

The chapters and verses that the bible has been broken down to make it extremely easy for some parts of it to be used out of context and the other parts ignored in order to give a very skewed perspective of what it says. In reality, the bible contains contradiction after contradiction and a multitude of errors and discrepancies, despite the fact that it has been continuously edited throughout history, with dozens of books that were once part of the bible having been removed. (As but one example, Martin Luther removed many books from the Scriptures which he translated to German in 1534 but published them separately as what now known as the Apocrypha. See also: anagignoskomena and pseudepigrapha; and ancient texts like the Dead Sea scrolls.)

Jesus of the gospels is considered an incarnation of God. In contrast to the aggressive and warlike OT God, Jesus condones and praises passivity and submission. The four gospels telling of Jesus’ life differ immensely. Many, even in religions other than Christianity, consider Jesus a prophet, but he wasn’t a very good one, as he predicted he’d die and come back to life after three days and three nights, but in reality although the gospels disagree on almost every part of the resurrection story, they do demonstrate that he was in the grave for barely over a day and a half. I cannot understand why Christians are so willing to overlook such glaringly obvious fundamental flaws regarding extremely pertinent events in a supposedly perfect book about a supposedly perfect being.

Christians are really excited about the idea that their god loves them. They do not seem to realize that believing something or wanting it to be true does not make it true. The bible claims God is love, but actions speak louder than words. Unsurprisingly, love is not even written about in the bible very much, except in Song of Songs (which according to modern Christian standards is perverted) and 1 Corinthians 13. Unconditional love is nowhere to be found in the bible. I will never trust any ideology that condones multiple mass genocides for disobedience as being acts of love. Similarly, I will not consider anyone who demands to be loved under penalty of death to be loving or have any idea how love actually behaves.

It is not surprising that for Christians, knowledge is eschewed in favor of faith. Faith is the idea of believing in something even if there is no evidence for believing it. All humans, because they possess finite knowledge, often rely on faith. For rational beings, faith is superseded by facts. By way of analogy, one can have faith that another will never stab them, but once the other has stabbed them, it would be absurd to continue to believe they have never be stabbed. Christians hide behind faith as an excuse for remaining ignorant. They don’t need to explain why the bible has so many mistakes because they can simply assume it is the reader who is mistaken, even concerning passages that require no abstract interpretation whatsoever.

Christians tend to arrogantly think theirs is the only religion where there can be found a sense of peace and miracles. On the contrary, EVERY religion promises and delivers these things. The community, perceived security, hope and explanations religions provide are great ways of pacifying people. Miracles, derived from things such as laws of probability, self-fulfilling prophecies and selective attention, occur all the time, which makes them not that miraculous after all. Non-Christians win the lottery, too! The New Testament promises God will do anything a group of believers ask of him, which we all know is a flat-out lie. People find comfort in thinking that anything perceived as positive or beneficially yet unlikely is proof that God loves them. By the same logic, wouldn’t it mean that every supposed miracle that doesn’t occur means God hates them? On the contrary, Christians see this as proof that God knows more than we do. Christians have a justification for everything, and it is usually illogical, one-dimensional, short-sighted or a self-proving paradox that is a skillfully twisted play on words.

Just because something makes you feel happy and fulfilled, that in no way makes it true. It also doesn’t mean it will have the same effect on others. Many Christians will assume non-Christians are miserable. Often they will lament how miserable they were before turning to Christianity. This idea that everybody but them is miserable would be simply laughable except that Christians think it is their duty to “save” everyone from this assumed misery. They themselves have bought into hyperbolic stories about prodigal sons that scare them from imagining life possibilities other than the one they are familiar with. They are experts at the art of the guilt-trip. Until you believe exactly what they do, you are unequivocally wrong and should change your ways, which they have deemed sinful, whether you want to or not. They literally think they are doing others a favor by destroying their lives. It seems the true goal of Christianity is to make everybody who does not agree with them miserable.

Christians are very good at regurgitating clichés and embracing any evidence that supports what they already believe while simultaneously grasping at every perceived flaw in every view that is not theirs. Christians will tend to immediately disregard any opinion contrary to theirs as wrong without giving it any consideration, research or allowance for further explanation. They assume all contrary opinions are impulsive while theirs are divine. According to their rhetoric, while their motives for converting those who don’t agree with them are from love and compassion, the motives for pointing out the flaws in Christianity can only be anger and bitterness. Somehow heathens are the bad guys despite the fact that Christianity is the religion that promises eternal torture.

Because they think their religion has all the answers, most Christians are impossible to debate with. This is probably the most aggravating thing for me, a person who loves intelligent conversation. Christianity cleverly dissuades Christians from questioning their assumptions, as the suggestion of doubt is uncomfortably near to the all-important sin of unbelief. This fear is somewhat unfounded however, as the bible does allow for its god to be questioned, and the OT god prides himself in being tested.

It can be determined that the bible has too many mistakes to be reliable. By its own standards, one mistake is too much. Since flaws in it can be readily pointed out, it follows that any or all of it could be similarly flawed. This means Christians have absolutely no means for justifying their beliefs. They simply believe a bunch of random stuff random people told them and choose to interpret events that could happen in any religion or absence thereof as being the work of God. It logically follows that if Christians wish to justify their beliefs, they must first either explain why the bible is so full of holes or demonstrate that their views are correct without the use of the bible to justify their claims. Otherwise, it can only be assumed that their beliefs are completely unfounded. It then follows that they should, at the very least, refrain from forcing others into being subjected to their views.

If any Christian reads this and realizes I have valid points yet are unwilling to admit or debate them, you are nothing but a pathetic coward. If anyone notices anything demonstrably inaccurate in what I have presented, pleased be specific in letting me know what that might be.

24 comments:

eric said...

I'll take the bait, empathetically understanding--though not subscribing whole-heartedly to--the Christian traditions. You requested that your audience, if in disagreement, point out to you those specific places that demonstrably inaccurate.

1. There are many kinds of Christians, and, by implication, kinds of specifically Christian beliefs and practices. Some hold to the dogma without practicing, and some practice without holding to the dogma. One type of Christian that functions as a counter-example to your generic criticisms comes out of what has been called the "liberal theological" tradition, including the likes of Friedrich Schleiermacher, Paul Tillich (see especially the last few pages of "Courage to Be"), Paul Ricoeur, John Hick, and Paul Knitter (make sure to check his "The Myth of Christian Uniqueness"!). Since they do not believe literally in the Christian mythology, are they confused about what to call themselves? Or are these obviously not among the specific kinds of Christians to which you refer?

2. It is queer to refer to "having independent thought" as a right. As far as I can tell, rights are a social phenomenon having to do with what others are obligated to do (and not do) to us. Thought, as something that, unless publicly announced, is private and subjective, does not grammatically admit of being a "right." One of my favorite lines from Kierkegaard (in Either/Or) is to the effect that people always fight for freedom of speech while rarely taking advantage of the freedom of thought which they already have. The point here is that all Christians are individuals, and thus have their own thoughts that are not shared universally by all Christians--something made plain in every (Christian) conversation about religious diversity (see Vatican II).

eric said...

3. You wrote:
"Nothing of a metaphysical nature can be proven or negated, which means that every god ever conceived in any religion has an equal chance of existing."

a) Is that a metaphysical claim, a claim having to do with what is, is necessary, or is possible/impossible?

b) A round square is a logical contradiction, a contradiction in terms. A round square, therefore, cannot exist (a metaphysical claim proven).

4. The bible itself does not unequivocally claim that god is unchanging. In his article on the "Logic of Biblical Anthropomorphism," E. Lab Cherbonnier convincingly shows that, in Daniel 6:26 for instance, the Hebrew word that can be translated as unchanging actually means "steadfast" or "committed."

5. Faith is not necessarily believing in something with lack of evidence. I think Tillich's definition is the most fruitful for anyone serious about trying to understand what faith is as something distinct from knowledge and/or belief. Also, examining Fear and Trembling can be illuminating for those who genuinely reflect on what they are doing by committing themselves to Christianity.

a) Side issue here:
What does this mean?
"By way of analogy, one can have faith that another will never stab them, but once the other has stabbed them, it would be absurd to continue to believe they will never stab them." Do you mean to say that it would be absurd to believe "I have never been stabbed" (truly absurd) or it would be absurd to believe that "I will not be stabbed" (not an irrational prediction)?

6. Not all Christians think non-Christians are miserable--see point #1 above. I think you are solely concerned with Christians of the "exclusivist" bent.

7. Also, not all Christians think that doubt is terrible--see Tillich in #5.

8. Even exclusivist Christians can be warranted in their beliefs, if we take seriously non-foundationalist theories of knowledge and truth. Plantinga, for instance, and however much I personally do not like his inferences, has a decent article on defending the justification of Christian beliefs without reference to the biblical text.

------------------------

The essence of what I understand you to be saying is that dogma in all its forms (Christian or otherwise) as well as missionary practices (that are non-sexual) are the problem. If that is true, then I agree with you. If, instead, the problem is Christian beliefs and practices in their totality that are problematic, then I do not agree with you because I do not think there is such a thing as "Christian beliefs." There are people who refer to themselves as Christian, which I assume they are then, and they believe this or they believe that. I do not find overwhelming evidence that people who refer to themselves as Christian believe the "same" thing, whatever "same" can mean in such cases.

Let's say that a belief is a mixed phenomenon of at least two parts:
a) a social/linguistic act that is publicly exchangeable, and
b) a subjective assent that puts a personal perspective and twist on the public act.

It is the latter part that makes it so difficult to say that there are Christian beliefs...

oudev oida said...

Thanks so much Eric!

1. Yes, this summarizes much of my point. Christians have unique beliefs but they justify them by claiming they are following an objective Truth. Your summary at the end that I am referring to dogma is correct. I ask for people to defend their beliefs without falling victim to, "so and so said it so it's true." that so and so is often someone else’s interpretation of the bible that they blindly agree with.

Further, much of my complaint is those Christians who just believe what some other person (pastor for example) told them and regurgitate that as: a) What Christianity unequivocally is, b) What the bible unequivocally says, or c) What others should agree with.

I have respect for those who can say, “I believe…” and genuinely explain why. Not so much respect for those who say, “God says…” and think that’s good enough.

2. I agree. I need to fix the first sentence of the third paragraph because as written it makes no sense.

3. Nice catch. You found a remnant of a paragraph that got edited out where I went on about specific metaphysical claims. If I erase the preposition all is fixed.

4. If God is changing what he wants of us is unpredictable so it’s useless to guess what it might be. Might as well think for ourselves and not even bother with what God used to think or might currently think.

5. I mean the former (truly absurd). I whole-heartedly recommend everyone examine Fear and Trembling.
6-7. I meant to write more generally. My bad on the blanket statements.
8. See #1.

oudev oida said...

I made several minor but substatial edits to address issues raised by eric.

eric's point #5 merits further debate. I didn't edit my original assessment in this regard.

although, I couldn't find that I had made the claim you refer to on point #7.

oudev oida said...

to clarify, i'm referring to eric's point #5 as follows: "Faith is not necessarily believing in something with lack of evidence."
as being up for continued debate.

eric said...

I want to make a distinction between belief, knowledge, and faith.

"Believing" is generally understood, however much I do not like this definition, an act of holding a proposition to be true--with or without regard to supporting evidence.

"Knowing" is generally taken to be, at least in traditional philosophical circles, an act of holding a proposition to be true with regard to supporting evidence (knowing = believing + evidence).

"Faith-ing" is, and I am working from Tillich here, an act expressing a state of being grasped by an ultimate concern. (Tillich actually claims that "Faith is the state of being grasped by an ultimate concern.")

oudev oida said...

Here's my take on belief vs. faith by analogy:

I have faith that my truck will start tomorrow morning.

I don't believe my truck will start tomorrow morning.

In this sense, my faith is more accurately a lack of concern. As in, I ain't gonna bother to test to see if it sarts before tomorrow morning. If it doesn't start, THEN I'll think of a plan B.

Please let me know how that relates. (My apologies, I haven't read Tillich in a LONG time)

oudev oida said...

My analogy was very off the cuff but I think it works so I'm going to run with it a little more.

Here's the evidence I'm working with:
1. The truck abruptly died for unknown reasons while I was parking it.

2. My truck is pretty quirky in this regard.

3. Last time my truck did this (two weeks ago) it didn't start the next morning.

(There are several other factors I could elaborate on but methinks you get the jist)

Evidence seems to support my belief moreso than my faith. But there's no definitive evidence that it won't start.

But really I'm just lazy and don't want to deal with it right now so I have blindly (untested) hope that it'll miraculously start tomorrow.

eric said...

I am willing to focus on the point about "faith," after making one more reference to the post proper.

Your reading of the Hebrew Bible (or OT) is contestable on literary grounds. A key work that tries to take a "naive reader" approach to the text is Humphreys' "The Character of God." What personality traits and over-all character would a naive reader ascribe to the deity depicted in Genesis? It plays a number of different roles, but it is on the reader to render a coherent (as far as a personality is coherent) literary image of it.

Enough on that.

eric said...

With regard to the word "faith."

The word plays numerous roles in a variety of distinct semantic fields or language games. For instance, the way in which you are using the word "faith" with regard to your truck, I take a number of synonyms to be the following: hope, blind faith, trust, wishful thinking, whim, guess, etc. Most of these could replace your use of the word "faith" without (much) loss of meaning.

But the word need not be, and of course is not, tied to that specific semantic field. For instance, a coach might say to a goalie who has just expressed doubt about his ability to fulfill his role adequately that, "I have faith in you!" In this context, synonyms for the word "faith" would be the following: "I have confidence that you can do it," "I expect you will do great," "Don't worry, you'll do great," etc. The function of the word here seems to be to express your support for another person when she or he has expressed some self-doubt. This is a legitimate use of the word.

To illustrate the point, consider the word "bank." This gets used in all sorts of semantic contexts. If I say, "Let's meet at the bank." where will you go? The river bank or the money bank? Moreover, if I say, "Nice bank shot!" one will likely understand that I am talking about basketball.

The word "faith" is just like the word "bank"--polysemic (poly = many; semic = meaning).

eric said...

So, I understand your use of the word "faith" to refer to those Christians whom I can only think to refer to as "naive Christians," those who have not taken numerous things seriously: a) science, and empirical observation generally [e.g. people do not come back from the dead]; b) religious diversity, even all the diverse forms of Christianity; and c) the tendency of all human collectives towards nihilism.

This latter point, I think, is the most important. As Nietzsche pointed out, it is critical to determine whether or not a set of religious beliefs and values (or morality) is life affirming. Anything that denies life, negates it. Thus, in Nietzsche's diagnosis, many forms of Christianity (or "Platonism for the people") deny life, and so are nihilistic. (Note: as far as I can tell, Nietzsche never criticized St. Francis.)

Any Christian that is not wrestling with this problem, whether they deny or affirm life, is "naive." But I am not sure that merits ridicule or pity.

oudev oida said...

While I'm not familiar with Humphrey, a naive reader perspective seems something I'd espouse. Instead of accepting what a reverend, tradition, etc. tells you about the biblical god's character, read the thing yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Yes, I tend to think people take faith (and intuition, "common sense," etc.) too seriously. I think these things, while unavoidable to a large degree, are generally flippant, arbitrary and unreliable.

"Life affirming" seems too open to interpretation to be very useful. Who or what's life? What aspects of life?

oudev oida said...

I'd better add I don't doubt the power of faith- and realize a coach telling the goalie to have faith is often advantageous in increasing the goalie's performance, etc.

eric said...

I thought you might like the "naive reader" approach!

I want to go back to something in the post proper: I am suspicious of your strict distinction between "groups" and "individuals" (3rd paragraph).

One of my favorite paradoxes I like to repeat to people is that one time at McDonald's in CF when you said to me, "Think for yourself!" The existential conundrum that obtains here is this: a) if I think for myself, I am merely doing what you told me to do; and b) if I think for myself by doing the opposite of what you called for, then I succumb to "group-think."

All of our thoughts, whether linguistic, imagistic, or musical, are made possible by precedent conditions, by languages and genres that we inherit. While we may have some creative capacity to make novel connections between disparate elements of our experience, that hardly constitutes some radical form of autonomy. Our selfhood is, clearly, more complex than merely rejecting social norms. In fact, flat out rejection merely brings the norms to our attention and reinforces their efficacy. It's not whether we subscribe to what a group does or does not believe or whether we react to larger forces in our lives, but how we subscribe to them or negotiate these larger forces.

oudev oida said...

Yes, we agree that it is impossible to think purely for one's self and that that statement is absurd. I edited out a paragraph in that regard as well. I might toy with the wording of it.

Mom said...

I have been intending to respond to this for quite a while, but always end up just shaking my head and not knowing where to begin....because your comments seem to reflect some of what you are criticizing.

First of all, I would like you to define "Christianity". I don't think the term is as "cut and dried" as you think it is. I have made the statements that "I hate Germans" and "I hate Republicans", the latter having some credibility...but even saying "I hate conservatism" has an enormous amount of pitfalls if I look too closely.
It comes down to the first statement that Eric made, which is that there are many kinds of Christians. I think I know what your definition would be, although that might not be someone else's definition. It might be interesting if you did attempt to define your term and then any responses will be more on target, IMHO.

Thank you for making me feel comfortable in responding.

Mom again said...

I know that there are discrepancies in the Bible, and in all 110 translations. This does not bother me significantly, however, as I see it as giving me more flexibility! I can take the writings of Emerson and Thoreau, for example, and find places where they seem to contradict themselves or, certainly, are not what we would now see as PC. And you can insert, I would think, any philosophy and religion and have some “holes” as far as consistency. This makes sense to me because human nature is such a paradox. We have conflicting emotions and attitudes (or am I the only one). It would be comforting in one way, I suppose, to have a picture of God with a message that is solid and unwavering. But, on the other hand, there is some comfort in the picture of God as double-minded as we are. Yes, I know there is even scripture about not being double-minded. I am trying to leave scripture quotes out of the discussion, as that is a great part of the problem in any dialogue.

I agree with you about the tunnel vision and arrogance that some Christians can demonstrate. It seems to me that, at times, people are seen as some kind of commodity or notch on the belt. Again, this is not true for all Christians, thankfully.

The Christian outlook also relies heavily on the societal appropriateness, as you have stated here or elsewhere. The more I study church history, the more I see that this is true. I don’t necessarily think that this is a bad thing, however. It is not good if you want strict rules with no regard to the “times”. However, it is kinder and gentler to bend with the flow, if not dogmatic.

These are my thoughts for now.

oudev oida said...

thanks for the responses, mom.

1. I don't think there's a cut and dried definition of the word "Christianity." I'm generalizing.

2. Mostly, my essay is criticizing the Bible. Perhaps I should have just focused on that. Although, there's not a cut and dried definition of the bible either as i point out.

I don't find it useful that discrepencies in the bible can be excused so that anyone can make the bible say what they want it to say. anyone could easily use the bible to justify any actions. you want genocide? Pick a verse condoning genocide. you want peace? pick a verse condoning peace. How can that be seen as anything but a farce?

The verses people choose to read and the ones they choose to ignore change through time. Why bother with it at all? Would it be so hard for people to simply state what they arbirarily or thoughtfully believe without using the bible as a crutch?

oudev oida said...

Also, christians love to talk about paradoxes. (see this is obvious overgeneralization) I'm referring to mutual exclusivity.

if the entire contents of the bible is the word of God, any mutually exclusive statement proves everything God says is not true. There are many.

and

if anyone who doesn't believe everything god says is true goes to hell, and if the entire contents of the bible is the word of God, any mutually exclusive statement means everyone will go to hell.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for Deutronomy 10:6 and Numbers 20:28 to both be true. They are not paradoxical; they are mutually exclusive.

oudev oida said...

I'm compelled to make two more observations:

1. unlike God, Thoreau and Emerson did not say that they would eternally torture anyone who doesn't agree with everything they say. further, emerson was all about self-contradiction being a trait of humans. with due respect, that comparison (that contradictions in the bible are like contradictions in any other book) is ridiculous.

2. I would love to see any church doctrine which states or implies, "we don't really care that there are contradictions in the Holy Bible."

Mom said...

The Bible says that man is made in the image of God, which accounts for my perception of God with inner-turmoil.

I missed the contradiction in those two verses you cited: some dude died.

I agree that the "church" needs to face up to a LOT and not pretend that their own agenda is a shoe-in. There are a handful of Christian writers and speakers applauding some of your observations, i.e. Shane Claiborne. Check it out.

You should read The Shack if you get a chance...it takes about an hour...this is all the rage here...and I think it is ludicrous, but it is a new vision of God, for sure, which I suppose is progress.

oudev oida said...

You don't see a problem with the same person dying and being buried in two different places? well, i guess you're not the only one.

Truthfully I'd rather gouge my eyes out than read one more bullshit vision of god. I'm sick and tired of everyone inventing a god and then passing it off as if they've discovered god. don't know how that's progress. same old, same old. but alas i usually end up reading the dumb things anyway to not be hyprocritical.

if man is created in god's image than god is a moron.

Mom said...

Maybe God had a better developed sense of humor (or the absurd) than we give him/her credit for.

But, then, I watch Saving Grace with with the angel who enjoys watching the people try to figure it all out.

oudev oida said...

That sounds like the greek gods (and others). The bible gives no evidence whatsoever that the jewish god has any humor. I think it follows that you must ask yourself whether you actually believe in the christian god as you seem to think you in some other god entirely.

so far it seems your god behaves how you hope it does, which is absurd.